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>How about anti-magic being part of enchanting again.
As you might expect, I fully endorse this.
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I have just been curious about this, so I'm going to throw it out there. Are there any plans to integrate a spellbook update with the new enchanting system? Noticed that someone was asking about a way to store sigils, I think it would make a great alternative instead of magic personalized sigil books for EACH guild. Just a thought, it could be just another leaf with a set maximum on the number of sigils to store.
>>I knew he'd eventually find a kind of magic he liked. The kind that hates other kinds of magic.
lol
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
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lol
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
Re: anti-magic items
Argh, another "non-magic users should be able to prevent magic users from using magic without there being a way for them to be similarly prevented from using not-magic" suggestion? I'm growing tired of the periodic suggestions for things (spells, abilities, and now items) that attempt to severely hinder or flat-out stop the use of magic. By all means, suggest something that protects you against hostile magic thrown your way, but things that disrupt mana or otherwise prevent general spellcasting have no place. Anywhere. It's not okay to reduce other players to effectively being a commoner who can't do anything fun or interesting (or even execute a viable mundane attack, in one case), especially for more than a couple of seconds. You might as well suggest an enchantment that forces someone to log out of the game.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Argh, another "non-magic users should be able to prevent magic users from using magic without there being a way for them to be similarly prevented from using not-magic" suggestion? I'm growing tired of the periodic suggestions for things (spells, abilities, and now items) that attempt to severely hinder or flat-out stop the use of magic. By all means, suggest something that protects you against hostile magic thrown your way, but things that disrupt mana or otherwise prevent general spellcasting have no place. Anywhere. It's not okay to reduce other players to effectively being a commoner who can't do anything fun or interesting (or even execute a viable mundane attack, in one case), especially for more than a couple of seconds. You might as well suggest an enchantment that forces someone to log out of the game.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
<<but things that disrupt mana or otherwise prevent general spellcasting have no place. >>
???
on the tattered scroll you read, blah, blah blah.... mana disruption spell.
apparantly at least someone thought something to that effect was worth coding.
i mean, its not much different from having huldah's special hug on you. :-)
Explore the Final Frontier - the unknown calls
???
on the tattered scroll you read, blah, blah blah.... mana disruption spell.
apparantly at least someone thought something to that effect was worth coding.
i mean, its not much different from having huldah's special hug on you. :-)
Explore the Final Frontier - the unknown calls
<<Argh, another "non-magic users should be able to prevent magic users from using magic without there being a way for them to be similarly prevented from using not-magic" suggestion?
Magic is an external source of power. NMUs rely on their own inner sources. Hence "inner magic" and "inner fire." Which means magic is disruptable. Internal sources basically require killing the user. Which, apparently, won't necessarily do the job in 3.0.
Magic is an external source of power. NMUs rely on their own inner sources. Hence "inner magic" and "inner fire." Which means magic is disruptable. Internal sources basically require killing the user. Which, apparently, won't necessarily do the job in 3.0.
>>NMUs rely on their own inner sources. Hence "inner magic" and "inner fire." Which means magic is disruptable. Internal sources basically require killing the user.
If it is an "inner source," then my spells that effect your "inner being" should stunt your not-magic, i.e. you can't harness your chi if my mental blast just fried your nerves.
Not saying that I WANT all supernatural powers to be able to be rendered ineffective, I'm just saying that the "inner magic should be untouchable" argument is bunk.
If it is an "inner source," then my spells that effect your "inner being" should stunt your not-magic, i.e. you can't harness your chi if my mental blast just fried your nerves.
Not saying that I WANT all supernatural powers to be able to be rendered ineffective, I'm just saying that the "inner magic should be untouchable" argument is bunk.
the names on the account. these boards are not IC, nor is the character who is in possession of this spell named "gonif".
And the spell disrupts the mana being used by the critter casting it. At least that's how it seems. <haven't used it against PCs, only magic-wielding critters. I'll have to capture a log later, but i'm training elsewhere at the moment.
Explore the Final Frontier - the unknown calls
And the spell disrupts the mana being used by the critter casting it. At least that's how it seems. <haven't used it against PCs, only magic-wielding critters. I'll have to capture a log later, but i'm training elsewhere at the moment.
Explore the Final Frontier - the unknown calls
That's a good point.
There are a lot of ways to cancel out the magic people have in effect on themselves in the new system. What limitations exist, or will be placed on non-magic users to compensate for the fact that they do not face this same danger of having their own magical effects stripped away and/or negated completely? Or do you feel that the danger is not enough to warrant any additional balancing of the scale?
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
There are a lot of ways to cancel out the magic people have in effect on themselves in the new system. What limitations exist, or will be placed on non-magic users to compensate for the fact that they do not face this same danger of having their own magical effects stripped away and/or negated completely? Or do you feel that the danger is not enough to warrant any additional balancing of the scale?
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
>>NMUs rely on their own inner sources. Hence "inner magic" and "inner fire." Which means magic is disruptable. Internal sources basically require killing the user.
I think that's a very acrobatic way of justifying why casting a spell could/should be blocked/shut down while invoking a khri couldn't/shouldn't be.
Beyond that, a magic user's mana/harness pool is essentially "magical fatigue." What spells like MDIS do is not make magical energy "vanish," but attempt to make the target too "magically fatigued" to effectively cast spells. Casting spells is as internal of an act as invoking a khri or berserking.
I think that's a very acrobatic way of justifying why casting a spell could/should be blocked/shut down while invoking a khri couldn't/shouldn't be.
Beyond that, a magic user's mana/harness pool is essentially "magical fatigue." What spells like MDIS do is not make magical energy "vanish," but attempt to make the target too "magically fatigued" to effectively cast spells. Casting spells is as internal of an act as invoking a khri or berserking.
<<What limitations exist, or will be placed on non-magic users to compensate for the fact that they do not face this same danger of having their own magical effects stripped away and/or negated completely?
NMUs are specifically disincluded from conjuration without using magical devices, which is a pretty basic part of being a magic user. They don't manifest shields to protect themselves, they suck it up or go berserk. They can't throw fireballs at people, they throw knives.
If you examine their abilities, most of them affect the NMU specifically. Barbarian roars are the exception, and they're a bit weird, to be honest. Most of them would be disablers.
NMUs are specifically disincluded from conjuration without using magical devices, which is a pretty basic part of being a magic user. They don't manifest shields to protect themselves, they suck it up or go berserk. They can't throw fireballs at people, they throw knives.
If you examine their abilities, most of them affect the NMU specifically. Barbarian roars are the exception, and they're a bit weird, to be honest. Most of them would be disablers.
<<What limitations exist, or will be placed on non-magic users to compensate for the fact that they do not face this same danger of having their own magical effects stripped away>>
even under the current system the NMU is still subjected to some of this.
Take the effect of the HALT spell. If a thief is successfully Halted, he or she cannot throw up a khri and just vanish.
Explore the Final Frontier - the unknown calls
>>It may seem like it's beside the point, but it's actually fairly on target. NMUs can still be affected by disablers the same as everyone else.
Except the discussion isn't about disabling people from doing something, but from disabling something that was already done.
"There are a lot of ways to cancel out the magic people have in effect on themselves in the new system."
So when someone replies
"If a thief is successfully Halted, he or she cannot throw up a khri and just vanish."
That has nothing to do with anything.
A more apt comparison would be how anti-invisibility powder cancels both RF and Khri Silence.
Except the discussion isn't about disabling people from doing something, but from disabling something that was already done.
"There are a lot of ways to cancel out the magic people have in effect on themselves in the new system."
So when someone replies
"If a thief is successfully Halted, he or she cannot throw up a khri and just vanish."
That has nothing to do with anything.
A more apt comparison would be how anti-invisibility powder cancels both RF and Khri Silence.
<<A more apt comparison would be how anti-invisibility powder cancels both RF and Khri Silence.
So your point is that disablers affect MUs and NMUs the same...?
I suppose it's worth pointing out at this juncture that NMUs manifest supernatural abilities. MUs use magic. You can disrupt magical preparations because there's a pattern there to be disrupted. You can't disrupt the manifestation of supernatural abilities unless you prevent their body from functioning because it's part of who they are.
So your point is that disablers affect MUs and NMUs the same...?
I suppose it's worth pointing out at this juncture that NMUs manifest supernatural abilities. MUs use magic. You can disrupt magical preparations because there's a pattern there to be disrupted. You can't disrupt the manifestation of supernatural abilities unless you prevent their body from functioning because it's part of who they are.
LEEJ82, in Magic 3.0 I believe there will be an Analogous spell called "Dispell" which will remove a magical effect already in place on another Magic User character. Other spells, items and abilities which pull off the same effect are being discussed.
My main concern was whether or not there would be a similar ways to remove a supernatural effect already in place on a Non Magic User character. If not, is this balanced? Why or why not?
This is the concern in its simplest form.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
My main concern was whether or not there would be a similar ways to remove a supernatural effect already in place on a Non Magic User character. If not, is this balanced? Why or why not?
This is the concern in its simplest form.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
>>.My main concern was whether or not there would be a similar ways to remove a supernatural effect already in place on a Non Magic User character. If not, is this balanced? Why or why not?
As currently planned, I would consider it balanced. MUs can screw MUs; NMUs cannot screw MUs, and vice-versa. It only becomes unbalanced, IMO, if Barbarians got a Dispel-like ability and there was no way to dispel dances.
*******
Malkien
As currently planned, I would consider it balanced. MUs can screw MUs; NMUs cannot screw MUs, and vice-versa. It only becomes unbalanced, IMO, if Barbarians got a Dispel-like ability and there was no way to dispel dances.
*******
Malkien
I'm sure there's a way to do it without being magic...
Hardcore barb grabs a handful of fire and some pigspit and places it on the a bone forge or something, smashes with it his special hammer, grunts at it, and it's good. Fire sigil made.
How? He's a hardcore barb, and this is DR..
Lick the fire sigil and affix to wooden shillelagh= sheep murdering weapon of doom.
I guess like the dwarves who made Thor's hammer threw a pigskin in the forge, and made a boar whose bristle's glowed in the dark. More mythic than magic.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
Hardcore barb grabs a handful of fire and some pigspit and places it on the a bone forge or something, smashes with it his special hammer, grunts at it, and it's good. Fire sigil made.
How? He's a hardcore barb, and this is DR..
Lick the fire sigil and affix to wooden shillelagh= sheep murdering weapon of doom.
I guess like the dwarves who made Thor's hammer threw a pigskin in the forge, and made a boar whose bristle's glowed in the dark. More mythic than magic.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
<<My main concern was whether or not there would be a similar ways to remove a supernatural effect already in place on a Non Magic User character. If not, is this balanced? Why or why not?
How many of their spells can an MU have up on them at any given time?
Now how many of their supernatural abilities can an NMU have up on them at any given time?
If you're willing to trade limitations for the ability to disrupt NMUs, you're just screwing yourself over, but go for it.
How many of their spells can an MU have up on them at any given time?
Now how many of their supernatural abilities can an NMU have up on them at any given time?
If you're willing to trade limitations for the ability to disrupt NMUs, you're just screwing yourself over, but go for it.
Discussion that doesn't devolve into flaming doesn't hurt in my opinion :P
The discussion started because of the mention of an enchantment which would either disrupt the mana in the room or the mana directly of the individual. If such items like this would exist it is good to think about whether or not Inner Fire Destroying or Khri Destroying items should exist as well.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
The discussion started because of the mention of an enchantment which would either disrupt the mana in the room or the mana directly of the individual. If such items like this would exist it is good to think about whether or not Inner Fire Destroying or Khri Destroying items should exist as well.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
>>If such items like this would exist it is good to think about whether or not Inner Fire Destroying or Khri Destroying items should exist as well.
Potpie of Deafness.....Causes the person to be deaf for a short period of time. Immunity to roars with a reduction in perception.
And I still love my idea as I think that every non-guild skill should be useful to all. And more things that people have to use and counter use is good in my opinion. There are already ways to raise mana now. With enchantments, no reason to have both mana sinks and mana raisers. Sinks just a NMU to produce, but capable for everyone to use. I have no problem, but actually believe that there should be ways to counteract Barbarians and Thieves. Though not Traders. No one should be able to block our awesome SPEC COIN more than it already is.
Abison
Potpie of Deafness.....Causes the person to be deaf for a short period of time. Immunity to roars with a reduction in perception.
And I still love my idea as I think that every non-guild skill should be useful to all. And more things that people have to use and counter use is good in my opinion. There are already ways to raise mana now. With enchantments, no reason to have both mana sinks and mana raisers. Sinks just a NMU to produce, but capable for everyone to use. I have no problem, but actually believe that there should be ways to counteract Barbarians and Thieves. Though not Traders. No one should be able to block our awesome SPEC COIN more than it already is.
Abison
I'm going to be honest here. I, the player, personally dislike the emphasis that DR places on magic, and thus generally support anything anti-magic.
That said, I don't see the major issue, so long as they stick to things that don't remove magic, but hinder it, I don't see a huge problem.
NMUs are already being locked out of an estimated 1/3 of the enchanting items (all runecrafted items), so why shouldn't they get funky replacements that only help them?
See http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Post:Binding/Invoking_-_07/11/2011_-_09:38 for runecrafting info.
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That said, I don't see the major issue, so long as they stick to things that don't remove magic, but hinder it, I don't see a huge problem.
NMUs are already being locked out of an estimated 1/3 of the enchanting items (all runecrafted items), so why shouldn't they get funky replacements that only help them?
See http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Post:Binding/Invoking_-_07/11/2011_-_09:38 for runecrafting info.
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>>NMUs are already being locked out of an estimated 1/3 of the enchanting items (all runecrafted items), so why shouldn't they get funky replacements that only help them?
Runecrafting is listed in that entry as generally involving mana and arcana skill. That doesn't mean there can't be a chakrel-driven barbarian sigil runecraft that is driven using inner fire and arcana, for example.
Runecrafting is listed in that entry as generally involving mana and arcana skill. That doesn't mean there can't be a chakrel-driven barbarian sigil runecraft that is driven using inner fire and arcana, for example.
>That doesn't mean there can't be a chakrel-driven barbarian sigil runecraft that is driven using inner fire and arcana, for example.
What about Thieves? And Traders?
As much as my love my Barbarian, there are other NMUs out there that shouldn't be forgotten.
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What about Thieves? And Traders?
As much as my love my Barbarian, there are other NMUs out there that shouldn't be forgotten.
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>>What about Thieves?
I forget who said it, but a red name (maybe Zeyurn) in the Thief folder said that khri would not be able to be stripped while in use, and in return Thieves would not have an ability to strip other guilds of their magic or other supernatural abilities.
I think that this is an interesting topic, but I honestly would rather fights be about using your abilities to win rather than focusing on who can strip the other's abilities first so they can destroy them.
I forget who said it, but a red name (maybe Zeyurn) in the Thief folder said that khri would not be able to be stripped while in use, and in return Thieves would not have an ability to strip other guilds of their magic or other supernatural abilities.
I think that this is an interesting topic, but I honestly would rather fights be about using your abilities to win rather than focusing on who can strip the other's abilities first so they can destroy them.
<<I think that this is an interesting topic, but I honestly would rather fights be about using your abilities to win rather than focusing on who can strip the other's abilities first so they can destroy them.>>
That statement doesn't correlate to the fact that MUs will have a dispell spell. so with 90% of the guilds able to dispell the abilities of 90% of the guilds "using your abilities to win" will be about trying to weaken your opponent before attack.
I'm fine with NMU's abilities being kept in the containers they are now, but we are talking about Enchanting which is not forbidden to the NMU. Can the dispell ability be something that can be enchanted on an item?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
That statement doesn't correlate to the fact that MUs will have a dispell spell. so with 90% of the guilds able to dispell the abilities of 90% of the guilds "using your abilities to win" will be about trying to weaken your opponent before attack.
I'm fine with NMU's abilities being kept in the containers they are now, but we are talking about Enchanting which is not forbidden to the NMU. Can the dispell ability be something that can be enchanted on an item?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
>>NMUs are specifically disincluded from...<<
NMUs are specifically excluded from...
FTFY. Sorry, it made my skin crawl reading that.
________________________________________________________________________________
We've decided that instead of spells Paladins will be a new arm of the Bard guild utilizing interpretive dance moves.
~GM Zeyurn
NMUs are specifically excluded from...
FTFY. Sorry, it made my skin crawl reading that.
________________________________________________________________________________
We've decided that instead of spells Paladins will be a new arm of the Bard guild utilizing interpretive dance moves.
~GM Zeyurn
As long as I can make cotton balls to stop roars, a magnetic type thing that catches coins, a piece of kryptonite that drains inner fire, a drum that disrupts dances, a necklace that is worn backwards to warn me of backstabs, a kazoo that ruins concentration of others...
oh, and all of these items should only be able to be created by MUs.
I'm with the other poster, instead of spending time making the antithesis to every power, how about if we just work on more "things" we can do.
Also, is Magic Resistance going away from all guilds?
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
oh, and all of these items should only be able to be created by MUs.
I'm with the other poster, instead of spending time making the antithesis to every power, how about if we just work on more "things" we can do.
Also, is Magic Resistance going away from all guilds?
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
>Also, is Magic Resistance going away from all guilds?
Yes.
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Yes.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
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>>As long as I can make cotton balls to stop roars, a magnetic type thing that catches coins, a piece of kryptonite that drains inner fire, a drum that disrupts dances, a necklace that is worn backwards to warn me of backstabs, a kazoo that ruins concentration of others...
The thing is that NMUs have no problem with this. Its the MUs that hate that there might be equalizers. And its the GMs who claim to be about balance refuse to add balance to a system. Though, I could be wrong but all post by them say otherwise.
I thought that the GMs were looking for balance in everything. Where is the negative of using magic or the positive of not.........
Abison
The thing is that NMUs have no problem with this. Its the MUs that hate that there might be equalizers. And its the GMs who claim to be about balance refuse to add balance to a system. Though, I could be wrong but all post by them say otherwise.
I thought that the GMs were looking for balance in everything. Where is the negative of using magic or the positive of not.........
Abison
>>The thing is that NMUs have no problem with this. Its the MUs that hate that there might be equalizers. And its the GMs who claim to be about balance refuse to add balance to a system. Though, I could be wrong but all post by them say otherwise.
How are things not equal without them?
No one being able to disrupt each others' abilities = equal
MU's only being able to disrupt other MU's = equal
I for one would like a mana disruption pot or a roar to drain mana, but I don't understand how NMUs not being able to disrupt mana somehow means inequality.
*******
Malkien
How are things not equal without them?
No one being able to disrupt each others' abilities = equal
MU's only being able to disrupt other MU's = equal
I for one would like a mana disruption pot or a roar to drain mana, but I don't understand how NMUs not being able to disrupt mana somehow means inequality.
*******
Malkien
>I don't understand how NMUs not being able to disrupt mana somehow means inequality.
It doesn't. It's just that there's already in equality, and we're looking for something to shift it back.
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It doesn't. It's just that there's already in equality, and we're looking for something to shift it back.
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